DiscNW Community Bulletin Boards

Is this really the best forum for figuring out these issues?

-sara

Mike-

I agree with you and think that your points make a lot of sense. I've thought as a youth player that DiscNW needed more opportunities in the summer for youth players, like an under 22 hat or team league (so that high schoolers can play with friends in college) and a tournament in the fall.

Your idea to create a separate youth organization makes a great deal of sense and obviously you and other committed members of the youth ultimate community have put a great deal of thought into this.

I only have a couple of questions on your proposal. The first is: how do you plan to make an SPS HS leagues work? There are currently two public programs in Seattle that are single gender (Nathan Hale and Roosevelt). Where does that leave the private schools and programs from the suburbs like Monroe and Bellevue? There is some serious growth needed to make that part of the plan work and even then you would be embarking on a league that would be more exclusive (Seattle only) than any other club/varsity sport in this state. As a former member of a team that was located outside the Seattle school district, I would be a little worried on how you plan to provide for those teams in the beginning years of the new organization. Second: Would you field teams for YCC? This event, flawed though it may be, is very important to the players.

It sounds as though you have already decided that a separate youth organization would be the best course of action. For DiscNW to adopt your compromise proposals is a fair amount of mission creep on their part and would require a rewriting of their statement. Also, the advantages of a separate organization would be substantial. I am hesitant to donate money to DiscNW because I am not whether it will be used for youth outreach or not. Also, no longer would my activities as a player in leagues subsidize Potlatch. I would rather DiscNW make money on the biggest mixed tournament in the world, considering that their loss for 2007 was a dollar amount that could have made the youth leagues for 2008 free to all participants. I think that a separate youth organization is a great idea.

Alex Walker

Mike Keran - The website for the future pf youth ultimate is something that concerns me a great deal. The DiscNW site is not perfect but it is darn good (looking forward to batch upload of schedules, shopping cart feature, etc).   How about this: Mike Keran, Seattle Youth Ultimate Webteam Lead? I like it.

Joe - Good stuff.

Alex - Great observations and great questions. I'll answer each one here:

"how do you plan to make an SPS HS leagues work? There are currently two public programs in Seattle that are single gender (Nathan Hale and Roosevelt)"
I actually wrote up a big plan for this in late April. We tried to work with DiscNW on it but it got stalled out. A couple of us might still try to make it happen. I've posted the FAQ that I wrote up here: http://www.discnw.org/forums/viewtopic. … 4323#p4323
It will answer many of your questions. Feel free to add comments and questions there too.

"Where does that leave the private schools and programs from the suburbs like Monroe and Bellevue?" It leaves them out in the cold. However, there is absolutely no reason we can't make a fall league work for those big publics. We could base it in north Kirkland. It is essentially the same plan minus the school districts. If those big pulblics wanted to play Seattle publics they could though it wouldn't be scheduled by the league. The private schools that currently play won't allow ultimate in the fall because they need those athletes for other sports which is the nature of small schools. I would like to get something started with the Catholic schools but that will have to wait until we can get ultimate into the CYO. (Yes, I have a plan for that too - summer CYO leagues)

"Would you field teams for YCC?" Absolutely. I'm one of the people who wrote the National YCC plan in the first place. Not only do I like YCC, but I want to expand it and host it. I would take the HS teams out of the UPA but I would support the UPA through a MOHO training league. Here is a link to what I wrote up about the future of HS ultimate:
http://www.discnw.org/forums/viewtopic. … 4324#p4324

I do think separating out youth is the right thing to do and I think it will help DiscNW in the long run too.

Thanks for posting. Please feel free to look at the plans and find flaws and weaknesses.

-Mike

Mike,

I put this stuff in writing in late April. I met with the ED and the board president in June. I met with the new board member focused on youth in July. And yet very little has been done with youth. You hired a new youth coordinator. Didn't we hire a full time youth coordinator two years ago. Both the old YC and the new YC are good people with a lot of talent, but that doesn't change my arguments.

What will her focus be as new YC? Seattle or Tacoma? If it is Tacoma why is DiscNW spending money earned in Seattle youth in Tacoma when clearly there are needs for more stuff in Seattle?

You talk about plans for meetings and getting input but DiscNW has been doing that for three years with youth. There is a group of us who have founded most of the youth stuff in Seattle:

Joe B (Seattle MS spring league, Seattle HS coed league, Seattle Public MS fall league, MOHO)
Mary L (Seattle MS spring league, Seattle HS coed league, Spring Reign, MOHO)
Jeff J (Seattle MS spring league, Seattle HS coed league, Spring Reign, MOHO)
Me (HS Single Gender, HS State, HS Westerns, HS YCC, Seattle Youth Camps)
Roger Crafts (Seattle Youth Camps)

What else is there? How many things has DiscNW founded without us doing it? Tacoma Camp? Fall Hat? (No Fall Hat was Doug Baker).

Let's see who among the youth founders/builders and who among the current coaches is willing to pipe up on this transparent thread about moving youth to a new organization. That is a staring point and it is open to all.

DiscNW does a great job with adult but my argument is that they can't keep up with youth. The ED does great work (as I have said many times) but he can't be in two places at once. The board president told me that DiscNW does not need the funds from youth to run DiscNW. Why won't you let us go?

Now that you are in this argument how about addressing the 8 points that I brought up that are issues for youth being in DiscNW? All the dissenters just talk about how I'm grandstanding or being combative, yet you don't actually answer any of the points brought up. You just talk about having a meeting to talk about ideas.

This is very similar to when there was a push to go to single gender for HS with leagues, state, etc. There were only a few people willing to support that (Roger and a couple others) within and outside DiscNW. The difference here is that there are a lot more people willing to support it.

-Mike Mullen

I like Julian's bottom line question -
"And so I will ask, what does DiscNW offer to your youth scene that could not be obtained in a new youth organization?"
From the perspective of a coach, parent and organizer, I would say that the website and especially the registration engine have been very helpful. I am sorry to say that I really don't see a lot more coming from discnw that couldn't quickly come from a new youth focused organization. If I was to ask the follow up question of "What does youth ultimate need that has not come from discnw?" , the list would be quite long. Does this mean that it couldn't? No. Am I skeptical that it will, with the focus and timeliness that I am hoping for? Definitely.
I hear Mike getting some grief for putting this argument out their on a public forum, but again, the guy delivers - just look at the success of his summer camps and the teams he has coached - and I can totally understand his frustration at the promise of talk and the lack of action.
I was one of the guys who was in the meeting when we decided to roll youth ultimate in this town into the discnw umbrella. I was hopeful of what that could mean for us as we had operated for years as a relatively loose organization relying mostly on the tireless work of Mary Lowry. I guess I am just disappointed with where we haven't come in these last years. I think it has to do with the fundamentally different, and in some cases conflicting missions of the two groups. Come on, what other "youth focused" board would put up with losing money on a tournament like Potlatch, in large part because of the cost of the party?
As far as the full time youth director, is she being paid a living wage in this town? Was she given a job description that properly reflected the real needs of youth ultimate around here? Was she told of the brewing issues between youth organizers and discnw prior to being hired (because Mike isn't saying anything that hasn't been on the table for a very long time?) (Note, my issues are not with Wynne, who I really hope can be helpful in getting us where we need to be.)
I hope I am not taking myself out of the position of being able to be part of this dialogue by going public with my comments but it didn't seem fair to leave Mike hanging out there in the wind. By the way, I was one of those who fought Mike on the single gender thing years ago and I am sure we will be on opposite sides of many arguments in the future, but on the fundamental need for an organization whose sole mission and purpose is to promote the educational and athletic needs of young ultimate players and the coaches and organizers who work with and for them, I have to say, he is dead on.

Long live open and democratic dialogue.

Joe Bisignano

Thanks Julian for chiming in.  The question you close with is great.  I’m happy to see Joe has responded to it.  I’m excited to see what other people think.

I’ll give you three big reasons why I think creating a new youth organization is a bad idea: 

1) It would lead to competition between the organizations: Reserving fields is a good example of where this could happen.  We all (youth and not-youth) need fields and we’re already in competition for those fields with other user groups.  DiscNW has established relationships with many cities throughout Washington as well as other entities that rent playfields such as Seattle Public Schools and King County.  Many, maybe all, of those relationships begin with the transaction of purchasing fields from them.  They are relationships that are largely very positive because DiscNW pays for the fields on time and even takes steps other groups do not to try to insure that fields don’t get trashed.  Honestly, on this front DiscNW would make out much better as it has the established name recognition and trust than the new youth organization and the kids who would be participating in their programming. 

2) Two organizations would have less clout:  This hasn’t come up in any of the discussions, but it’s an increasingly important aspect of what the organization does that needs to be considered with regard to this type of change. Consider the recent grant that DiscNW applied for to get money for ultimate striping on the new fields at Magnuson. (http://www.discnw.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1484). Consider the uproar that DiscNW created during the first ProParks levy campaign that help insure that Magnuson Park got money.  In both situations, as well as in all the other meetings that DiscNW staff and field advocacy volunteers have with the people who control the allocation and development of playfields in this area, the weight of our words is directly related to our size. Bigger is definitely better!  Splitting up makes us smaller and easier for decision makers to discount.  Who loses here if we split?  We all would.   

3) A new youth organization would face significant administrative hurdles that DiscNW is already adept at dealing with:  First, because it has already been pointed out, the web site and, in particular, the registration feature. (Yes, it’s not perfect. . . probably never will be. . . but isn’t a website always a “work in progress”?)  Second, payroll and accounting . . . Joe B suggests paying coaches and staff but this isn’t something that comes together easily if you have to start at square 1.  That leads me to one other hurdle the new organization would face in starting up:  the IRS.   My experience starting up a regional youth-only ultimate organization (Willamette Juniors Ultimate) in OR made me way more familiar with what the IRS expects of 501(c)3’s than I ever wanted to be and I can sum it up this way: It isn’t easy.  It isn’t fun.  It is never ending. It is always getting harder. Could the new organization get over these hurdles?  Yes, but lots of the effort in doing so will have to come from the board members, volunteers and employees.  It will divert energy they would rather spend on some of the great ideas for helping kids that they have.  I’d go so far as to say it would probably prevent them from achieving many of them. Who loses?  The kids they are trying to serve.     

So, IMHO the solution is not to split into two organizations.  The solution is to continue the course toward better management of DiscNW resources.  Yes!  I’m contending real actions are being taken in response to Mike’s perspective that DiscNW is doing little/nothing.

Here are two I want to highlight because they have already been thrown out and need to be responded to: 

1) On the financial end of things . . . big steps have been taken in the last 3 years to create an accounting system whereby the flow of revenue is clear (thanks in huge part to Chris Burke and William Bartram).  Additionally, in May 2007 (http://www.discnw.org/admin/upload/96/0 … inutes.pdf ) the board created the Youth Development Fund (http://www.discnw.org/about/youthDevelopmentFund.html) in order to allow those who want to earmark donations to DiscNW for youth only purposes.   I would agree with Mike that the “DiscNW tax” needs to be reexamined.  I’d add that inadequate attention was given to building awareness of the Youth Development Fund .

2) DiscNW acted (I’d argue) as decisively as is possible to get a staff member for youth purposes. People may criticize decisions that were made, but . . . how do I put it. . . DiscNW now has a history of making these kinds of decisions that a new organization would not have. It’s unfortunate that these are hard learned lessons gathered as the result of two hiring decisions that did not work out. DiscNW’s board now knows about taking action when something isn’t working.  It is experience that I think has paid off in getting and retaining Bunny, commiting to a FT youth person, and hiring Wynne.  A new organization would have to learn these lessons on it’s own and in doing so it would probably be unnecessarily retracing steps that DiscNW has already made.   

I’ve gone on way longer than I wanted to here, but I wanted to say that I agree completely with Joe B that we need to get these ideas people have out there.  I don’t love the bulletin board, but it will work to create a record of those ideas as well as providing a venue to those who can not attend the Youth Summit in October. 

Dave Dreher
DiscNW Board Member 2004-2008

I have long deliberated on this issue since I began talking with Mike probably over 2 years ago now. Anyone who doesn't know me and Mike, we don't agree on most topics, but our visions for ultimate and more specifically youth ultimate are shared as I think they are shared by everyone who has posted on this thread, except maybe that Pitt guy as I don't know him. Anyhow, I have served as the UPA representative for Youth Ultimate in our state for two years, I have volunteered on the Youth Committee for three years, I coach at NWS and at MoHo when I have the time, and this past summer I also worked one of Mike and Roger's amazing camps.

I don't think anyone on this thread really disagrees with Mike on the big issues facing Youth Ultimate, some disagree with his method as I do, but regardless of how something gets done it does NEED to get done. I've been on the inside of it all and have always tried to approach everything with an unbias perspective which as many know my passion for this sport, or my teams, it is hard to do.

No one, not even myself can see all the aspects of this. Those in favor of the new youth organization though have been the back-bone I feel of youth ultimate in Seattle for long enough that I trust them with the future of the sport I love.

I don't support two seperate organizations, I think I more favor a business partnership as it seems we are asking the UPA often for the same thing. Let youth benefit from the relationships that DiscNW has with the parks department, let them benefit from the website and financial help that an established non-profit can bring. In turn let DiscNW benefit from the youth numbers it can report and boast about, let them in turn benefit from having all those youth and parents realize what a great organization DiscNW is for Ultimate and for supporting youth in such a way as to help it grow as fast as it can maintain.

Ultimately what Mike is calling for is a large staff that is solely Youth oriented, and I support that. The hiring of a Youth Director was great step, but there needs to be more people dedicated to youth. Meeting once a month as a youth committee, will nto bring about the change needed quick enough. Yes it's harsh, but it's true. Find people who can meet once a week, they are out there, I am one of them. Get hard fast timetables down for getting stuff done. Ultimately when the dust settles Youth will be the focus and it will either be a part of DiscNW or it won't but that is not the major concern. The only true concern is benefiting Youth and I think it is indeed time for change.

I favor an expansion in staff. Like we have seen with the UPA and utlimate as a whole over the past two decades, Ultimate grew at an exponential rate whereas the support staff kept the same. Now the UPA struggles to grow Ultimate and maintain the current status quo for their events. We see the same parallel trends here in adult and in youth and DiscNW needs to expand at a rate that is comparable. By expanding into youth only, it allows people who are more adult oriented to stay that way, while still meeting the needs of kids with their own dedicated staff.

My two cents, written over the last couple hours and reread more times than I would like to admit.
-Rusty
Coach, Player, and Volunteer.

I thank everyone who has taken the time to contribute here. I have had a good talk on the phone with Mike DiGioia. A couple thought/clarifications, etc:

This discussion revolves around the main them of "what is and what could be." In my discussions with Mike D, it has become clear that there is a gulf in understanding between the board and a number of the youth people concerning "what is." This thread and the summit will hopefully close that gulf of understanding. I am hopeful that other youth people will contribute to this online discussion to contrbute to the knowledge base. There is also the question of "what could be." Clearly, I and others are frustrated about the "what could be" ranging from how professionally things are run now to what programs should be added and when. That "when" for some of the events in my opinion is "it should already exist." Mike D did make the astute observation that a significant part of this discussion is revolves around customer service and the the youth people don't think they are getting the proper customer service. I agree on that.

Other thoughts about previous posts:
Julian - Thanks so much for an example of keeping separate books. This is something I have been advocating since my days on the board. It is my argument that youth does fund Potlatch because separate books are not kept nor are separate accounts. It is one thing to track revenue but it is another to actually keep monies in different accounts.

The issue of youth events losing money is an interesting one. I'm looking at the 2007 numbers. Of course the Seattle Public MS League is going to lose money because that is outrach/donation by DiscNW. Fall Hat is a DiscNW run league and I'd like more details about why it loses money but my guess is that it isn't marketed as agressively as possible and/or is using more expensive fields. The big losers are HS coed and YCC. How do these events lose money. Simple they are not on Seattle fields. I coached that YCC year and we were under the lights on the FieldTurf at Marymoor for 3 hours per week on two fields.  Most of the cost overrun was because we were out there instead of Seattle on the much more affordable fileds. And there should be no tax on YCC because there is a built in GM user fee for each participant that comes out to $500 per team not to mention that a vast amount of the expense are the plane tickets which are essentially "pass throughs." Players and families sign up for tickets at a group rate, DiscNW pays with the credit card and the familes reimburse. So the accounting on the YCC is very misleading or discnw is charging a 10% fee for the pass through which would be beyond belief.

This leads to fields. Dave, I must disagree with you. DiscNW relationship with parks for renting fields is nothing special. The camps rent straight from the parks as do a number of the schools in the league. WSG rented straight from the parks. Parks does a great job with all the rental requests. The key is to have your plans made and your league registrations done before making parks requests which is standard operating procedure for school athletic directors and should be for DiscNW youth. My key point and I think the biggest sticking point for DiscNW is that youth should get first right to all fields. That is how it is in other youth sports. And the requests should be made seperately because parks gives youth preference and in Seattle youth fees are very very affordable while adult fees are closer to the fees for Shoreline and King County Parks. And MS league did not have enough fields. That I am sure of because I did the schedules and I had to bump SB and Whitman into the midweek.

Dave - You are right about the IRS stuff on running a non-profit but luckily there are a lot of youth people who work in non-profits and have a lot of connections to other non-profit boards and resources. We are no neophytes on how non-profits run and how much mundane work is needed.

Back to "what could be." In looking at the job description for youth coordinator I see an odd mix of specifics and generalities. Are the specifics benchmarks or just ideas? The generalities such as training people to run leagues is problematic because the youth coordiantor needs to be like an athletic director and actually run the leagues. That is not to say that the YC would be expected to be at every game but the YC should be the main force behind every league. We have had great onsite managers for DiscNW youth events for years (Jeff Jorgenson comes to mind for the MS leagues) and that is very trainable for volunteers if you are lucky enough to find someone to put in so many hours. But agian the YC should be on the hook for running the leagues and not just be a person who is a resource for those doing all the work. The YC should also be the TD or assistant TD for all the tournaments as well. If you look at the job description it is written more for someone doing the same thing for adult which is a very different animal. And because the job description contains large elements of what the board thinks is the future of youth based on what a YC who has never worked with any youth in Seattle or elsewhere, it is also an indication of what job the YC will be doing. I am confident that we have a good YC but if she goes by job description the same problems will exist. Hopefully the summit and this thread helps with that issue.

So finally I pose this question: Under what scenario could the board of DiscNW support youth leaving to form another organization. If budget and fields are separated out in DiscNW as they should be then we are on our way to being there. Also, as I have said before the BOD does a great job with the adult stuff inclduing several of them running adult events such as Potlatch. I propose that the board members who do participate in adult as organizers/players each adopt an area of youth (ES, MS, HS leagues, Moho, etc) and really get their hands dirty helping organize those things. The counter argument is why not just get youth people on the board? We have done that and frankly that gung-ho youth people are not interested in putting in time on adult coed though if we could get enough youth people on the board we could just vote youth or maybe adult out of DiscNW. And what benchmarks should there be to hold DiscNW to supporting and growing youth in the proper manner?

That's all for today. - Mike

Props to you Frank on your accomplishments, and also for a good demonstration of tact.

As someone who has played a lot of ultimate, and lived in a few different cities, I think that DiscNW has done a great job so far.  I think that youth ultimate is far better organized in Seattle than in most other cities.   Youth ultimate was not nearly as organized in Boston, or as high profile.  Clearly DiscNW is doing something right when leagues are growing, and youth teams are competing at a high level at nationals.  Something tells me that DiscNW might be becoming a victim of its own success.

As evidenced in this thread, there are clearly some differences of opinion as to how things should be run, but the idea of a split seems pretty short-sighted.  Current DiscNW players are the youth coaches of the future.  DiscNW is valuable advocate for everyone who plays ultimate.  And the entire ultimate community is stronger if we speak with one voice, rather than pitting youth ultimate against adult leagues. DiscNW should have a voice in youth ultimate.  DiscNW may never do enough to keep everybody happy, but it seems like they are trying and have done some great things.

Thanks to everyone at DiscNW for all their hard work!!!

It has been interesting to read all of the posts here. While I feel pretty open minded about all of this, I find myself drifting ever more adamantly towards separation as time goes on.
Great non-profits have great boards, individuals who are willing to donate time, energy and money to make something happen. When I talk to parents whose kids are engaged in this sport they are passionate about their love of the game and the role it plays in their kids lives. Let's be honest, in part because of some of the schools where programs have been strong for a long time, many of these parents have the experience, contacts and resources to get things done. Where is that representation on the DiscNW board? I want to see big thinkers and hard workers on a board whose sole mission is the development of youth ultimate. To me, in the long run, this may be the biggest need.
Second, I couldn't agree more with the others who have said the finances need to be totally separate. I am sorry, if Potlatch loses money and youth camps make money and they both go into the same account, then youth camps help pay for the Potlatch party. No accounting semantics can change that reality. Separate bank accounts is a critical issue to maintain the integrity of the youth mission, especially as it moves to include fundraising.
I also agree that fields reservations, when done in combination with adults, serves the adults at the expense of kids. I would be interested to hear of a situation where Seattle gave some extra consideration to a youth field request because of our association with adult ultimate. Vice versa??  I put on a youth tourney this summer and found the parks folks great to deal with just with the word that I was running a youth event.
Finally, I am excited to have a full time youth person on board. (No knock against Frank, but why exactly did the DiscNW board agree to lessening his hours, essentially saying at the time that youth could deal with half the time commitment? This doesn't exactly look like putting the needs of youth first at the time. And there is surprise that there is frustration out there?? Don't mean to discredit attempts to remedy this with recent hire but it is decisions like this that got this whole separation movement going.)
Youth does need that level of staffing.
So I guess my opinion would be that if youth gets its own board, its own bank account, its own field requests and its own director and can still be part of DiscNW then we should talk about staying together in partnership. If not, ?? 
That's is where I am at today.

Staying open minded on the path to clarity,
Joe Bisignano

Let me begin by saying that I am privileged to be a part of a conversation that is going to revolutionize Ultimate as a legitimate youth sport in the Seattle Area and hopefully elsewhere.

Before reading the posts on this message board I was for separating from DiscNW and forming a youth centered organization.  After reading all these posts, I see and feel that everyone in this community has a heart for youth and believe that a compromise can be reached.  However, as Mike, Joe and others have stated, some very drastic changes need to be made, and they need to be made soon.

My first concern is what is going on with youth at Potlatch.  I have heard both sides of the argument on who is financing Potlatch (which won’t be an issue if youth and adult funds are kept separate) but nothing about the ethics of this tournament.  I would contend that the majority of the activities at DiscNW’s flagship tournament are adult activities, targeted at people over the age of 21 and that youth players have no place in this environment. 

Anyone who has been to Potlatch the past four years (the years I have attended) could corroborate the fact that nudity, explicit sexual behavior and alcohol are major themes at this “premier tournament.”  I am speaking from firsthand experience.   The majority of the end-of-game cheers my team (Interrobang) participated in were alcohol related.  As a Seattle Youth coach going into my fifth year this created a rather awkward situation for me as many of the players I coach(ed)/coach(ed) against were playing on the field right next to me.  I consequently did not participate in these cheers because I am a role model for these kids and don’t want to set a bad example.  The teams that offered us alcohol offered the same drinking opportunities to the underage youth team, who gladly accepted (fortunately none of the kids still in the league partook as far as I know). 

And why wouldn’t they?  “Many of the best players in the world come to compete for the coveted Potlatch trophy,” (http://potlatch.discnw.org/history.php) players these kids look up to and in many ways idolize, doing adult activities in an adult environment clearly not suited for youth.  Of course they are going to mimic their heroes.  And yet on this issue, no one from DiscNW has said anything.  The Potlatch website is vacant of any rules concerning alcohol/drugs/or lewd conduct.  How can an organization that says it highly values the youth community condone such blatantly illegal activities?  Is it because of embarrassment that no one is talking?  Are the board members at all concerned with the legal ramifications and consequences that could result from this dangerous environment?  Is “Ultimate is a counter-culture sport” the excuse?  I don’t think I am out of line in asking for an explanation for such disregard for the safety and well being of the youth ultimate community.  To be a credibly youth organization, DiscNW either needs to make Potlatch a 21+ only tournament OR have extremely stringent, no-tolerance rules banning alcohol, illegal substances and lewd behavior.

Moving on, I would like to echo Britt that working with the UPA has been burdensome, both monetarily and in the amount of paperwork necessary to participate.  Does DiscNW see any of the UPA dues youth players have to pay in order to be eligible for YCC?  Hopefully, because this would help alleviate costs for running the league and paying for field space for the YCC team.  For all of the paperwork and money we send the UPA’s way, I hope the Seattle Area is receiving something in return.  If not, why are we even involved outside of wanting to have a YCC team?  Westerns, if not in Burlington (run well by DiscNW)... is unpractical for most players to go to because of the strain it puts on their school work and the high financial cost.

Also, the UPA’s formats for youth Ultimate are based off of adult Ultimate tournament schedules.  Four or five games in a day is unsafe for youth.  As a coach and a teacher, I would like to see youth ultimate run like any other high school sport, with a state tournament format that has one to two games a day, which is safer and will not have such a large time suck on players/students valuable time.

Addressing Frank's comments, I don’t believe Mike was attacking you (Frank) personally at all.  I think he was stating that having ONLY ONE person in charge of running an ENTIRE Youth community (arguably the biggest youth community in the World) is unpractical and an unreasonable expectation put on you.  I think you did a great job with Spring Reign and every event you ran.  But running High School and Middle School League at the same time while trying to deal with the UPA and Moho and every other aspect of Youth Ultimate PART-TIME is an unfair working situation.  Kudos to what you were able to accomplish under such difficult conditions.  I believe that even though Wynne, a very talented and (overly) capable person, is now full time, it is going to be very difficult for her to accomplish everything that is necessary to run a successful youth ultimate organization.

Lastly, I don’t see why DiscNW couldn’t separate youth finances and organizational structures from adult while keeping it under the DiscNW name?  DiscNW does a great job of organizing tournaments and could team up to continue to help run Spring Reign, a State or Northwest/West Coast Championship, and Seattle Youth Ultimate Camps…  Maybe even have some youth vs. adult games?  Why is this not possible?  The money made from leagues/camps could be directly infused into building programs in low-income schools.  I think three years is not ambitious enough to incorporate all Seattle Schools.  With an aggressive marketing scheme, demo games with Riot, Viva, Shazam, Voodoo and Sockeye, and a solid organizational structure that plans 9 months, a year, two years ahead, I think we could have every Seattle School and many on the Eastside playing elementary, middle school and high school Ultimate.   This is all possible if things start to change NOW.  The status quo is no good.  Let’s start a revolution and do something amazing that no one thinks is possible.

Dreaming big,
Ryan “Wink” Winkelmann

Last edited by Wink (2008-09-02 09:38 am)